Woolwich murderer cited Koran

Perhaps I am slow to pick up on this, but I find it interesting that the first sentence of this video did not get broadcast.

There are many, many ayah throughout the Koran [referring to religious verses] that says we must fight them as they fight us, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. I apologize that women had to witness this today but in our land women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your government, they don’t care about you.”

That text in bold, sourced from LiveLeak is new to me.

Before reading that, I had come to conclusion, like Jonathan Pearce that the murder was effectively tribal , though the “tribe” consisted of international muslims. Of course, it might still have been primarily tribal (“as they fight us” points in that direction) and rationalised as a Koranic obligation (if “rationalised” can apply to a religious justification) but it does muddy the waters greatly.

JP wrote, and where I had thought that he’d nailed it was this:

There are many reasons how this state of affairs came about, and I am sure commenters have their views on this. I would point to what has happened in our own education system and the climate of ideas in the West for the past few decades. While Western society is, by some measures, more “individualistic” than it used to be – and that is a good thing – in some ways tribal mentalities remain strong. Maybe part of that has to do with post-modernism and the whole challenge to the idea that there is such a thing as objective truth, and that there are universal, shared qualities that all humans have, most importantly, the capacity for long-term, rational action, coupled with notions of taking responsibility for one’s actions, linked as that is to the idea that humans have free will.

I would very much like to belive that no religion is fundamentally violent, I find the idea depressing, but this is a great challenge to that sentiment. Do I now need to read the Koran for myself? I suppose I should.


    1. for the benefit of right wing hippy , perhaps the whole section should be quoted from Jesus himself,

      “Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

      39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

      40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

      41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

      42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

      43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

      44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

      45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

      46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

      47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

      48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

      Not so similar I think



      1. I’m glad I wasn’t allowed to get away with that hatchet job, shows that somebody reads the comments!

        In truth Christianity is the odd one out of those three. Or it should be, but it isn’t, because in practice every Christian knows that phrase and they often don’t pay much attention to Jesus’ rejoinder.


      2. Yes indeed, and I’m sure you noticed that the man who was killed was a tested solider. So this was not random. And that phrase denotes the attacker’s belief that he is enacting justice; he was very clear that it was a reaction to our invasions and not because he “hates our freedoms”.


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